Putinin Venäjä

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9376 Post by zache » 17 Apr 2022, 09:32

eh wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 21:21
Tämä on twitterin laivastojorkkien mielestä kuvattu ennen lähtöä joskus. Tässä on theshipyard:n kommentit
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1515 ... 53198.html

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9377 Post by spekulatiivinen pasta » 17 Apr 2022, 09:38

Corriere della Serassa ajatuspajauttelija Sergei Karaganovin haastattelu. En viittinyt kopioida tähän kaikkea NATO/EU/lännen syyttelyä. Nostin loppuosan haastattelusta jossa tulee myönnettyä että Venäjä on Kiinan taskussa. Ei kai tätä kannata lukea liian vakavissaan.
Sergey Karaganov: «We are at war with the West. The European security order is illegitimate»
di Federico Fubini
08 apr 2022

Sergey Karaganov: «We are at war with the West. The European security order is illegitimate»

Sergey Karaganov has served as a presidential advisor in the Kremlin both under Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin. He is still considered close to Russia’s president and foreign minister Sergey Lavrov. His recent proposals on Russian-speaking minorities in the “near abroad” are known as “Putin doctrine” and Professor Karaganov, who is honorary chair of the Moscow think tank the Council for Foreign and Defense Policy, was first to come out publicly about an all-out invasion of Ukraine in 2019. President Putin has mentioned on Feb. 24 that Ukraine’s accession to NATO warrants Russia’s military intervention to prevent it. However, Ukraine didn’t even have a Membership Action Plan for NATO and Germany’s chancellor Olaf Scholz clearly stated accession was many, many years off.

[Sössötystä NATOn laajentumisesta ja epäoikeutetuista sodista linkin takana]

Did you expect this level of cohesion between Europe and the US?

«Well, the cohesion will collapse because of the problems of the West. But for the time being they were organizing even before this conflict. The West is failing and losing its position in the world, so it needs an enemy – for the moment we are the enemy. I don’t think the unity will last, Europe will not commit the suicide by choosing to lose its independence. I hope our European neighbors will recuperate from this dizziness of hatred».

You speak like some other country started this war, in fact Russia started it.

«I was not for this particular scenario, but it happened. And I support my country. The West committed several aggressions. We are now on the same moral level, we are equal, we are doing more or less like you. I regret that we lost our moral superiority. But we are fighting an existential war».

Sanctions are getting tighter. Will Russia become more dependent on China?

«There is no question about that: we will be more integrated and more dependent on China. It has positive elements but overall we will be much more dependent. I am not very much afraid of becoming a pawn of China like some EU states became pawns of the US. First, Russians have a core gene of sovereignty. Second, we are culturally different from the Chinese, I don’t think that China could or would like to overtake us. However we are not happy with the situation, because I would have preferred to have better relations with Europe. But Chinese are our close allies and friends and the biggest source of Russian strength after Russian people themselves. We are a source of their strength. I would prefer to end this confrontation with Europe. My calculation was to create a safe Western flank to compete more effectively In the Asian world of tomorrow».

You declared that China, not Russia, will emerge as the victor in this war. What did you mean?

«We will be victorious because Russians always are in the end. But in the meantime we will lose a lot. We will lose people. We will lose financial resources and we will become poorer for the time being. But we are ready to sacrifice in order to build a more viable and fair international system. We are talking about Ukraine, but we really want to build a different international system than the one that emerged after the collapse of the Soviet Union and, in turn, is now collapsing. We all are sinking into chaos now. We would like to build Fortress Russia to defend ourselves from this chaos, even if we are getting poorer for this. Unfortunately the chaos could take over Europe, if Europe doesn’t act according to its interests. What Europe is doing right now is absolutely suicidal».

Is that a threat? Don’t you think nuclear deterrence still applies?

«I know that officially under certain circumstances the US could use nuclear weapons for the defense of Europe and they allegedly could fight for the defense of Europe against a nuclear superpower. There is a 1% chance this might happen, so we have to be careful. But if a n American president takes such a decision inviting devastating response it would mean he is insane».

This war doesn’t look sustainable, including for Russia. It can’t go on for long. What are the elements to agree at least on a real ceasefire?

«First, Ukraine must be a completely demilitarized neutral country – no heavy arms, for whatever of Ukraine remains. This should be guaranteed by outside powers, including Russia, and no military exercises should take place in the country if one of the guarantors is against it. Ukraine should be a peaceful buffer, hopefully sending back some of the arms systems deployed in recent years».

Ukraine needs security guarantees, it needs to be able to defend itself or it will not be a sovereign country anymore.

«I am sorry but Italy and most European countries cannot defend themselves either».

They belong to NATO…

«They have been saving on security. That is how they got themselves into this awkward position that Europe is not considered to be a serious actor in the world. Switzerland and Austria are neutral, but are safe. So can Ukraine».

Do you realize that after what you just said, the debate in Italy will move towards investing more on defense?

«You are welcome. One of the grave mistakes of the Europeans in the last decades is that they didn’t invest in their security, under their ideal of eternal peace. But I think European nations should be able to defend themselves, because they have real threats coming from the South and the world is becoming a very dangerous place as international relations are collapsing. The question is more against whom Italy would like to arm. Against Russia? Well, that would be insane. But you need a more robust military force. You are living in a very dangerous place in the world. If you depend on America, you are selling out your own security and sovereignty because the Americans have their own interests».

The EU seems to be moving towards cutting dependence from Russian energy – first coal, then oil and finally natural gas. Did you expect that?

«I hope you are not suicidal. Of course that would damage Russia, too, but Europe would undermine its economy and its social situation. I hope it will not happen, because you can calculate your own interests. If you don’t want our coal, we will sell it somewhere else. If you don’t want our oil, after a time and some losses, we will sell it elsewhere. And if you don’t want gas, well, well, we can also eventually redirect it after some suffering. Russians support Putin at 81% now, people are ready for a rough period».

Do you think Italy and Europe could do something to broker a deal?

«Not easy, given the situation. But what they could do is try to stop this Russophobia, akin anti-semitism of the previous centuries, this satanization of Russia that would lead us eventually to a worse confrontation than we have now. Even Russian culture is being erased in Europe by a new cancel culture».
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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9378 Post by zache » 17 Apr 2022, 11:43

Youtube videokatsausta. Niki Proshin, Eli from Russia, NFKRZ ja Feel russian

Niki Proshin selailee läpi lehdet ja nettisivut, mutta omasta mielestäni liian pinnallisesti ollakseen mitenkään erityisen kiinnostavaa. Enemmän oikeastaan kiinnostaa tuo videolla oheissa tapahtuva toiminta. Ilmeisesti Venäjällä ei olla enää kiinnostuttu COVID-19:sta ja jengi käy metrossa ja kaupoissa yms ilman maskeja.
Niki Proshin wrote: What news looks like for people in Russia
Eli from Russialta päivitystä Moskovasta. TLDR: sanktioiden vaikutus. Eli uskoo, että hinnat normalisoituvat ja sanktiot sinänsä tuottaisi puutetta, koska Venäjä pystyy tuottamaan elintärkeät asiat myös itse. Rautaesirippu joka väistämättä laskeutuu Venäjän ja muun maailman välille on ongelma. Venäjälle ja Venäjältä pystyy jatkossakin matkustamaan, mutta se on huomattavasti työläämpää suorien lentojen puuttuessa. Youtube on Elin arvauksen mukaan menossa kiinni toukokuun alkuun mennessä.
Eli from Russia wrote: 16.4.2022, How the 'special operation' changed our life | Q&A from Russia
* 0:00 Last video on the channel?
* 1:20 Life in Russia after February 24
* 6:37 Sanctions and economic situation
* 10:54 Visiting Russia. Is it possible? VPN, Fligts, Credit cards
* 16:34 Personal questions about my channel
* 24:36 Alternative for YouTube?

NFKRZ (lähti moskovasta ulkomaille) tekee retrospektiivin elämäänsä Venäjällä, siihen miten maailma on muuttunut hänen elinaikanaan ja miten se on vastannut sitä mitä hän toivoi tapahtuvan. 2000-luvun puolivälissä näytti siltä, että Venäjästä olisi voinut tulla avoin, ihmisten elintaso nousi, mutta 2010-luvulla meno on muuttunut kokoajan huonommaksi ja avoimuuden aika päättyi Ukrainan sotaan.
NFKRZ wrote: 10.4.2022, The Russia I grew up in doesn't exist anymore
Joku nainen etelä-venäjältä selittää miten Venäjä on aina ollut monarkia, ensin keisarikuntana ja sitten Neuvostoliittona, titteli on vain vaihtunut, kansa ei tiedä vapaudesta ja kaipaa vahvaa johtajaa. Kannattaa kelata suoraan lopun tiiviistelmään kohdassa 16:35.
Feel russian wrote: Why Russians never protest?

zache
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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9379 Post by zache » 17 Apr 2022, 12:05

Youtube videokatsausta 2/3. 1420-kyselyt

TLDR: Eivät halua paitsi kommari joka haluaa neuvostoliiton keisarillisen venäjän sijaan takaisin.
1420 wrote: 11.4.2022, Do Russians want the Empire back?
TLDR: Eivät halua valloittaa naapurimaita. Jos pitää valita niin jonkun sellaisen maan jossa on käynyt tai haluaa käydä. (Kanada). Paras vastaus oli "Land of Love".
1420 wrote: 12.4.2022, What countries do Russians want to conquer?
TLDR: Internet on tärkein viestintäkanava: Telegram, Youtube tuntuisi olevan tärkeimmät. VK, TikTok on myös mainittu.
1420 wrote: 15.4.2022, Where do Russians get information from?
TLDR: Eivät raiskaisi minkäänmaalaista naista. Osa pitää väitteitä Ukrainan tapahtumista paikkansapitävinä ja osa propagandana. Myös uutista siitä, että britit ovat tarjonneet majapaikkoja seksiä vastaan pakolaisille pidettiin propagandana.
1420 wrote: 16.4.2022, Would you rape Ukrainian woman?

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9380 Post by Balam-Acab » 17 Apr 2022, 12:18

mikäs perkeleen juttu tää tämmönen on että kuletaan kadulla haastattelemassa halukkuudesta raiskata jonkunmaalaisia naisia
Naturally, the machines were destroyed.
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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9381 Post by Maidanin Veteraanien Veljesliitto » 17 Apr 2022, 12:35

Overtonin ikkunaa veivataan alas ja sit vaan haastatellaan sen läpi

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9382 Post by eh » 17 Apr 2022, 12:35

Pumpelipöri wrote:
17 Apr 2022, 12:18
mikäs perkeleen juttu tää tämmönen on että kuletaan kadulla haastattelemassa halukkuudesta raiskata jonkunmaalaisia naisia
En tiiä, mutta saattaa olla ainakin osin tän pariskunnan don't ask, don't tell -sopimuksen inspiroima kysymys.
Just gimme a scene where the music is free
And the beer is not the life of the party
There's no need to shit talk or impress
'Cause honesty and emotion are not looked down upon

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9383 Post by eh » 17 Apr 2022, 12:39

zache wrote:
17 Apr 2022, 09:32
eh wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 21:21
Tämä on twitterin laivastojorkkien mielestä kuvattu ennen lähtöä joskus. Tässä on theshipyard:n kommentit
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1515 ... 53198.html

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Joo, tästä näkyi kaikenlaista epäilyä eilen, lähtien tosiaan siitä, että puut heiluu liikaa "onnettomuuden" jälkeiseen säätilaan nähden. Voinee ohittaa tässä vaiheessa.
Just gimme a scene where the music is free
And the beer is not the life of the party
There's no need to shit talk or impress
'Cause honesty and emotion are not looked down upon

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9384 Post by zache » 17 Apr 2022, 12:49

eh wrote:
17 Apr 2022, 12:35
Pumpelipöri wrote:
17 Apr 2022, 12:18
mikäs perkeleen juttu tää tämmönen on että kuletaan kadulla haastattelemassa halukkuudesta raiskata jonkunmaalaisia naisia
En tiiä, mutta saattaa olla ainakin osin tän pariskunnan don't ask, don't tell -sopimuksen inspiroima kysymys.
Varmaan se on ihan siitä, että Venäjän armeijan sotilaiden on erikoisoperaatiossaan esitetty siinä määrin laajamittaisesti raiskanneen naisia Ukrainassa, että ylemmän johdon on ollut pakko olla siitä tietoisia ja käytännössä se on venäjän mediassa kuitattu Ukrainan propagandana. Vaikka yhä aika rennosti jengi ottaa Moskovassa sen, että ei henkilökohtaisesti ole päätymässä rintamalle niin varmaan pikkuhiljaa on myös siellä mielessä, että rintamalle voi päätyä tai vähintään tuntee jonkun kuka siellä ja on realistisesti mahdollisuus että pitäisi miettiä mitä itse tekisi vastaavassa tilanteessa.

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9385 Post by eh » 17 Apr 2022, 13:00

Heh, kahden pennin tv-Goebbels kurmottaa puolustusministeriötä Moskvan kohtalosta.



Tapelkaa pojat niin saatte tupakkaa.
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There's no need to shit talk or impress
'Cause honesty and emotion are not looked down upon

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9386 Post by zache » 17 Apr 2022, 14:52

Hups, vaikka olisikin päätös tehty jo aikaisemmin, niin on siellä varmaan laskettu 1:1 jo aikaisemmin, että voisi olla hyvä idea vähentää riippuvuutta venäläisestä aseistuksesta poliittisen epävakauden takia ihan samaan tapan kuin Pakistanissa oltiin tehty. Sanktioiden jälkeen varmaan kova on luotto myös siihen, että Venäjä pystyy toimittamaan tilaukset.
India Today wrote: To boost Make in India, IAF cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 choppers from Russia

The Indian Air Force has decided to cancel plans to buy Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia in order to boost the government's Make in India initiative, said sources.

Aiming to support the Make in India initiative in the Defence programme of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Indian Air Force has decided to cancel plans to buy 48 more Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia.Top government sources told India Today that the decision to withdraw the tender for the 48 helicopters that was taken much before the conflict between Russia and Ukraine broke out and has nothing to do with the global scenario.“The tender for 48 Mi-17V5 helicopters has been withdrawn in view of the push for indigenisation. The IAF would now be supporting an indigenous programme for helicopters,” the sources said.
...

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9387 Post by MC Nigga T » 17 Apr 2022, 18:29


eh
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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9388 Post by eh » 17 Apr 2022, 20:35

MC Nigga T wrote:
17 Apr 2022, 18:29
Täähän on sillä tavalla jännä tapaus, että täsmälleen samasta teosta muut ovat selvinneet rikkomuksella, mutta Skotšilenkoa uhkaa pitkä vankeustuomio. Syynä on oman manifestinsa mukaan se, että hän kuuluu feministijärjestö "Kahdeksanteen aloitteeseen", joten syyttäjän näkemyksen mukaan "valheellisen tiedon levittäminen asevoimista" on tehty ääriryhmän jäsenenä, vaikka ko. järjestöä ei ole virallisesti määritelty ääriryhmäksi.
Just gimme a scene where the music is free
And the beer is not the life of the party
There's no need to shit talk or impress
'Cause honesty and emotion are not looked down upon

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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9389 Post by Liskomies » 18 Apr 2022, 08:43

Ukraina on Klonkku. Asia selvä. Eli artikkeli miten Venäjällä rakennetaan uutta todellisuutta ja kuvataan uuden maailman rakentamista.

During Friday’s broadcast of The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov, one of the most popular political talk shows in Russia, Kira Sazonova of the Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration argued: “I’ve thought a lot about the ongoing situation with Ukraine, in terms of what modern Ukraine represents for the West. It took me a long time to find the right word, but I think I finally found it. It’s ‘Gollum.’ Ukraine is Gollum.

Muutenkin pari hienoa lainausta tuolla kuten.

We’re entering a very interesting period in the development of modern history. We’re all incredibly lucky to be able to witness these great events.”

“This new world is extremely uncomfortable for us. We don’t even know all the difficulties we are going to encounter in the process of building this world... Every single person will encounter these difficulties. Somebody will lose a job... Somebody will lose a business.”

Loput sitten linkin takana.

Muistelen, että "Maailma palaa" historiakirjassa oli samansuuntainen Goebbelsin lainaus "Hyvät herrat! Vuosikymmenten päästä näistä hirveistä päivistä tehdään kaunis värielokuva. Mitä roolia te haluaisitte siinä esittää?".
Last edited by Liskomies on 18 Apr 2022, 09:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Putinin Venäjä

#9390 Post by Trollface-mies » 18 Apr 2022, 09:00

Ursula von der Leyen on siis Lukitari.
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