Punk in Finland

eh wrote:

Hesari wrote:Syyttäjän mukaan koko todistusaineisto ei vielä ole koossa, joten syytteet eivät ainakaan toistaiseksi liity terrorismiin.

Mitä?

Doctor Muñiz wrote: NYTimesissa oli tällainen:

The alleged gunman, Alexandre Bissonnette, was charged with six counts of murder on Monday.
[...]
Mr. Bissonnette, 27, who was also charged with five counts of attempted murder, appeared at the Quebec City courthouse looking boyish in a white jumpsuit. He was not charged with terrorism, which under Canada’s Criminal Code requires a broad proof of intent to intimidate the public.

Doctor Muñiz wrote:Mitä tohon sun kysymyksees tulee, niin sehän on sun "ovela" harhautusyritykses. Minähän alunperin tivasin sulta kriteereitä, mitä siinä tutkimuksessa on laitettu ekstremistisille kirjallisuudelle, kun siinä oli kuulemma väitetty, että monessa kanadalaisessa moskeijassa ja islamilaisessa koulussa on vain ekstremististä materiaalia (loogisesti tämä tekee Koraanista ekstremistisen teoksen). Sä et tähän suostunut vastaamaan vaikka olit hankkinut kyseisen artikkelin vaan keksit pähkähullun väitteen, että olisin kieltänyt kanadalaisissa moskeijoissa ja islamilaisissa kouluissa olevan lainkaan ekstremististä materiaalia.

Harmi, että sun haudoilla tanssimises sai lyhyen lopun.

Damar wrote:

Doctor Muñiz wrote:Mitä tohon sun kysymyksees tulee, niin sehän on sun "ovela" harhautusyritykses. Minähän alunperin tivasin sulta kriteereitä, mitä siinä tutkimuksessa on laitettu ekstremistisille kirjallisuudelle, kun siinä oli kuulemma väitetty, että monessa kanadalaisessa moskeijassa ja islamilaisessa koulussa on vain ekstremististä materiaalia (loogisesti tämä tekee Koraanista ekstremistisen teoksen). Sä et tähän suostunut vastaamaan vaikka olit hankkinut kyseisen artikkelin vaan keksit pähkähullun väitteen, että olisin kieltänyt kanadalaisissa moskeijoissa ja islamilaisissa kouluissa olevan lainkaan ekstremististä materiaalia.

Harmi, että sun haudoilla tanssimises sai lyhyen lopun.

No, jos joku väittää ettei Abrahamilaisten uskontojen pyhät kirjat ole ääriajattelijoiden keskinäistä onanointia niin saa vetää aikamoisia älyllisiä kärrynpyöriä vaikka toki tiedämme, ettei suurin osa uskovaisista tee mitä kirja käskee. Itsehän jos oksentaisin moista tekstiä vaikkapa blogiin niin SoMe ristiinnaulitsisi minut ( ) mutta jos kirjoitan sen uskonnon viikunanlehteen kääriytyneenä niin tuskin joutuisin raastupaan.

40oz Morpheus wrote: Noin muutenhan Kanadassa on 25 vuotta elinikäinen tuomio jonka jälkeen on mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen, mutta sitä voi erikoistapauksissa muuttaa pitemmäksi ja mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen poistetaan. Harvinaista, mutta on tapahtunut.

Sture Läkerol wrote:Sen verran classy sössötys ammuskelukeissin topissa, mikä vaati kuuden viikunanlehteen kääriytyneen muslimin hengen, että otetaas talteen.

Death in Junes wrote:

40oz Morpheus wrote: Noin muutenhan Kanadassa on 25 vuotta elinikäinen tuomio jonka jälkeen on mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen, mutta sitä voi erikoistapauksissa muuttaa pitemmäksi ja mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen poistetaan. Harvinaista, mutta on tapahtunut.

Tolla jätkällä tosin varmaan aika hyvä tsänssi päästä 25 vuodella, jos se kerran katui koko hommaa vain muutama tunti tekosten jälkeen. Ettei varmaan sit ihan mikään full hd Breivik/Dylann Roof.

Nahkis 2.0 wrote:

Death in Junes wrote:

40oz Morpheus wrote: Noin muutenhan Kanadassa on 25 vuotta elinikäinen tuomio jonka jälkeen on mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen, mutta sitä voi erikoistapauksissa muuttaa pitemmäksi ja mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen poistetaan. Harvinaista, mutta on tapahtunut.

Tolla jätkällä tosin varmaan aika hyvä tsänssi päästä 25 vuodella, jos se kerran katui koko hommaa vain muutama tunti tekosten jälkeen. Ettei varmaan sit ihan mikään full hd Breivik/Dylann Roof.

Tai sitten se ymmärtää, miten systeemi toimii ja mitä kannattaa sanoa, en tiiä. Seurasin hieman kun tuo Roof edusti itseään tuomio-oikeudenkäynnissään (vai mikä se sentencing on suomeksi) ja melko sakiaa juttua tuli suusta.

Damar wrote:

Doctor Muñiz wrote:Mitä tohon sun kysymyksees tulee, niin sehän on sun "ovela" harhautusyritykses. Minähän alunperin tivasin sulta kriteereitä, mitä siinä tutkimuksessa on laitettu ekstremistisille kirjallisuudelle, kun siinä oli kuulemma väitetty, että monessa kanadalaisessa moskeijassa ja islamilaisessa koulussa on vain ekstremististä materiaalia (loogisesti tämä tekee Koraanista ekstremistisen teoksen). Sä et tähän suostunut vastaamaan vaikka olit hankkinut kyseisen artikkelin vaan keksit pähkähullun väitteen, että olisin kieltänyt kanadalaisissa moskeijoissa ja islamilaisissa kouluissa olevan lainkaan ekstremististä materiaalia.

Harmi, että sun haudoilla tanssimises sai lyhyen lopun.

No, jos joku väittää ettei Abrahamilaisten uskontojen pyhät kirjat ole ääriajattelijoiden keskinäistä onanointia niin saa vetää aikamoisia älyllisiä kärrynpyöriä vaikka toki tiedämme, ettei suurin osa uskovaisista tee mitä kirja käskee. Itsehän jos oksentaisin moista tekstiä vaikkapa blogiin niin SoMe ristiinnaulitsisi minut ( ) mutta jos kirjoitan sen uskonnon viikunanlehteen kääriytyneenä niin tuskin joutuisin raastupaan.

Death in Junes wrote:

Nahkis 2.0 wrote:

Death in Junes wrote:

40oz Morpheus wrote: Noin muutenhan Kanadassa on 25 vuotta elinikäinen tuomio jonka jälkeen on mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen, mutta sitä voi erikoistapauksissa muuttaa pitemmäksi ja mahdollisuus ehdonalaiseen poistetaan. Harvinaista, mutta on tapahtunut.

Tolla jätkällä tosin varmaan aika hyvä tsänssi päästä 25 vuodella, jos se kerran katui koko hommaa vain muutama tunti tekosten jälkeen. Ettei varmaan sit ihan mikään full hd Breivik/Dylann Roof.

Tai sitten se ymmärtää, miten systeemi toimii ja mitä kannattaa sanoa, en tiiä. Seurasin hieman kun tuo Roof edusti itseään tuomio-oikeudenkäynnissään (vai mikä se sentencing on suomeksi) ja melko sakiaa juttua tuli suusta.

Lähinnä viittasin siis siihen, että soitti itse poliisille ja uhkasi ampua itsensä/antautui. Ei ehkä tavallisin psykopaattireaktio, vaikka mistäpä sitä tietää.

Damar wrote:

Sture Läkerol wrote:Sen verran classy sössötys ammuskelukeissin topissa, mikä vaati kuuden viikunanlehteen kääriytyneen muslimin hengen, että otetaas talteen.

On toki, mutta enpähän voinut jättä doktorille näkemystä, että olisin muka hyväksynyt hänen jauhantansa. Tuokin olisi kuulunut toiseen ketjuun.

Fox News deletes false Québec shooting tweet after Canadian PM's office steps in

Justin Trudeau’s aide says US network claim that mosque attack suspect was of Moroccan origin ‘spread misinformation … and perpetuates fear and division’

The office of the Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau has forced Fox News to apologise and retract a “false and misleading” tweet that inaccurately described the suspect in the Québec City mosque shooting as a man of Moroccan origin.

Kate Purchase, the director of communications for the prime minister’s office, sent a letter to Fox News objecting to misinformation it had put out after the attack on the Québec City Islamic cultural center.

Six people were fatally shot in the back as they prayed at the mosque on Sunday. Another 19 people were wounded. On Tuesday two people remained in critical condition.

Shortly after the attack police had arrested two men, one of whom was a Moroccan-born Québecer. By midday on Monday, police had clarified that only one was a suspect, and they had released the Moroccan-born man – who was now being treated as a witness – without charge.

Fox News later tweeted on Monday afternoon – after the police clarification – that the suspect in the attack was of Moroccan origin.

The Fox News tweet made no mention of the other man arrested, French-Canadian Alexandre Bissonnette, who now faces six charges of first-degree murder and five of attempted murder. Those who know Bissonnette have described him as pro-Donald Trump, anti-immigration and sympathetic to the far right.

Hours after it was made clear that Bissonnette was the only suspect in the case, the “false and misleading” tweet was still on the Fox News Twitter account and remained in circulation, said Purchase.

While the Fox News story linked to the tweet had been corrected, the erroneous tweet had been retweeted more than 900 times and had racked up 1,600 likes.

In a letter to a top official at the network, Purchase asked Fox News to retract or update the tweet to reflect the suspect’s identity as a 27-year-old French-Canadian.

“These tweets by Fox News dishonour the memory of the six victims and their families by spreading misinformation, playing identity politics and perpetuating fear and division within our communities,” she wrote.

The letter continued: “We need to remain focused on keeping our communities safe and united instead of trying to build walls and scapegoat communities. To paint terrorists with a broad brush that extends to all Muslims is not just ignorant – it is irresponsible.

“If we allow individuals and organizations to succeed by scaring people, we do not actually end up any safer,” she added. “Fear does not make us safer. It makes us weaker. Ramping up fear and closing our borders is not a solution.”

Within hours, Fox News apologised for the error. “FoxNews.com initially corrected the misreported information with a tweet and an update to the story on Monday. The earlier tweets have now been deleted,” Refet Kaplan, the managing director at FoxNews.com, said in a statement. “We regret the error.”

Moroccan-born Québecer Mohamed Belkhadir has described how he spent the night in custody after a misunderstanding.

He said he had been clearing snow off the steps outside the mosque when he heard gunshots. When the noise stopped, he called 911 and entered the mosque, he said: “It was a reflex. You can’t leave people when they’re in need.”

He said he was giving first aid to a friend when he caught a glimpse of a man with a gun. “I didn’t know it was a police officer – I thought it was the gunman who had returned.”

Belkhadir said he bolted from the scene. Only when police ordered him to the ground did he realise what was going on. He was released hours later, but by then his identity had become synonymous with the attacks.

'Islamophobia killed Canadians': anti-Muslim rhetoric blamed in Québec attack

Attack in typically peaceful city raises concern amid global turmoil as community leader bemoans politicians acting as ‘pyromaniac firefighters’

Thousands of Canadians from coast to coast have sought to show their support for victims of a shooting spree on a Québec City mosque, as the country struggled to comprehend how one of Canada’s safest cities had become the setting for an attack described by the country’s prime minister as an act of terror.

Just steps away from the mosque, residents braved the bitter cold to leave flowers and handwritten signs of support in nearby snowbanks.

Alexandre Bissonnette, a 27-year-old university student, was charged with six counts of first-degree murder and five charges of attempted murder on Monday. Those who knew Bissonnette described him as pro-Donald Trump, anti-immigration and sympathetic to the far right, prompting many to ask whether the current political climate had laid the ground for the attack.

The gunman unleashed a scene of “unspeakable brutality”, the Québec City Islamic cultural center, also known as the Grande Mosquée de Québec, wrote on its Facebook page.

“Gunshots, deaths, loading of ammunition, the cries of the injured. Blood on the prayer rugs. Practically a scene of war, here in our home of Quebec City, our city known for its peacefulness. Children witnessed this vile cruelty.”

Six men – all fathers – were fatally shot in the back as they prayed. Another 19 people were injured. On Tuesday, two remained in critical condition in hospital.

“It’s horrific. Horrific … in our magnificent city, it’s horrific,” said Régis Labeaume, Québec city’s mayor.

Home to just over 500,000 people, the city saw just one homicide in all of 2016. Now it has become the setting for one of Canada’s worst mass murders in recent years.

Over recent months, the mosque had been targeted in a series of attacks that rattled the city’s tight-knit Muslim community. Swastikas had been spray-painted on the walls of the mosque and a gift-wrapped pig’s head was left on the doorstep of the mosque during Ramadan, with a note reading “bon appétit”.

Weeks later, neighbours received a pamphlet alleging ties between the mosque and terrorism. “Security at our mosque was our major, major concern,” said Mohamed Labidi, the facility’s vice-president. “But we were caught off-guard.”

Administrators of the mosque had installed security cameras both inside and outside the mosque, said Boufeldja Benabdallah, the mosque’s co-founder. “We don’t live in a climate of fear, but we do take precautions.”

Similar measures have been taken at mosques across Canada. Within just three years, the number of police-reported hate crimes against Muslims in Canada more than doubled, from 45 in 2012 to 99 in 2014, according to Statistics Canada.

“Islamophobia has killed innocent Canadians,” the Canadian Council of Imams said in a statement on Monday. “As we pray for those who have lost their lives, the injured and their loved ones, we ask all decent people to stand against hatred of Islam and Muslims in all forms.”

Some pointed to the political right for helping to create a climate that fostered the escalating hostility towards Muslims. “This mosque attack is no accident,” MP Michael Chong said on Twitter on Monday. “It’s a direct result of demagogues and wannabe demagogues playing to fears and prejudices.”

Sunday’s attack took place amid heightened tensions linked to the travel ban imposed by Donald Trump on seven Muslim-majority countries.

Chong alluded to Trump, as well as Kellie Leitch, an MP who of late has floated the idea that all immigrants, refugees and visitors to Canada should be screened for anti-Canadian values before being allowed in the country. Chong and Leitch are among more than a dozen candidates running for leadership of the federal Conservative party.

“It’s time to say, ‘enough.’” Chong added in a Facebook post. “Playing footsie with hate is anathema to Canadians’ values. It is dangerous, it is cynical and we need to root it out.”

Leitch released a statement saying: “This outrageous act of violence is an attack not just on those gathered in a house of worship, but on the very fabric of Canadian society.”

For years the right in Canada has toyed with identity politics; in the run-up to the last federal election, the Conservatives promised a hotline to allow Canadians to report “barbaric cultural practices” while Stephen Harper, the former prime minister, attempted to use a proposal to outlaw face coverings during citizenship ceremonies as a wedge issue.

Philippe Couillard, the premier of Québec, noted on Monday that Canada had not escaped the political turbulence that has marked many other countries around the world. “Our society is a very open, tolerant and hospitable place, but we’re not different from other societies. We have the same devils as other societies: xenophobia, racism, exclusion exist in Québec too.”

“We’ve heard stories of women being spat on in the streets,” Couillard said. “People feel they have a license to do that now.”

The province has long been home to a simmering debate on race and religious accommodation. In 2013, the Parti Québécois – a provincial political party that advocates national sovereignty for Quebec – sparked controversy with a proposal to ban public servants from wearing religious symbols such as kippahs, turbans or hijabs. The party was defeated in provincial elections soon after.

The debate was resurrected in October, after the Liberal government launched parliamentary hearings on proposed legislation to ban anyone wearing a face covering from receiving public services in the province.

Days earlier, Jean-François Lisée, the newly elected leader of the Parti Québécois, hinted that the party would again focus on religious accommodation, with a series of interviews in which he argued that burqas should be banned in public.

On Monday, Hakim Merdassi, a member of the city’s Tunisian association, drew a direct line between the divisive debate and the bold attack. Addressing a stage full of Québec politicians – including François Legault of the Coalition Avenir party, who has spoken forcefully against burkinis – a visibly shaken Merdassi described the attack as an “opportunity to reject those who enrich themselves through hate”.

His voice laced with sadness, he added: “Certain politicians have been pyromaniac firefighters and today we have all been burned.”