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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2161 Post by Trollface-mies » 11 Feb 2020, 20:13

Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:04
live love laugh wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 14:04


Bloomberg on vaan oikeasti menestynyt Trump
Juu ei tommosella vähemmistöjen äänet vyöry, mutta ilmeisesti Bb on pakitellut anteeksi pyydellen näistä horinoista. Auttaako se, jää nähtäväksi.

Brutaalina ihmisenä mulle on periaatteessa ymmärrettävää pistää 90% partioivista sioista jollekin alueelle nuoria mustia jahtaamaan, jos pitävillä tilastoilla voi osoittaa, että 90% kaikista rikoksista tosiaan tapahtuu siellä nuorten mustien toimesta. Toi ei vaan tainnut kestää lähempää tarkastelua ja tietysti sopivia rikostilastoja saa myös aikaan nostelemalla nuorisoa seinille ja syynäämällä ihmisiä millä hyvänsä alueella. Tätä vois verrata siihen, että puhallusratsioita pidettäisiin vain Eirassa, ja johtopäätös olisi että maan kaikki rattijuopot asuu siellä.


Jaa ettei vyöry, kun just tossa pollit näytti että 22% afroamerikkalaista kannattaa tota häiskää, noista kommenteista huolimatta: https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-black ... -bloomberg
Black Voters Turn to Mike Bloomberg

His belated and convenient stop-and-frisk mea culpa might be good enough for voters concerned with beating Trump, and protecting the fraught gains of the past half-century.

Hours after this story was first published (with this opening paragraph reading “There are signs that black support for Mike Bloomberg in 2020 could be a mirror image of white support for Trump in 2016, when voters who didn’t want to admit their decision to pollsters nonetheless pulled the lever for him”), Quinnipiac released a new poll showing that black voters are warming to his campaign. Bloomberg shot up 7 points to third overall in the new poll released Monday afternoon, just two points behind Biden, who dropped 7 points. And Bloomberg shot up to second among black voters at 22%, behind Biden at 27% and falling.

The headline here had asked, “Are Black Voters Quietly Turning to Mike Bloomberg?” The answer for many appears to be “yes,” and not so quietly.

Despite a mayoralty defined by the billionaire’s “luxury product” vision of the city that sanctioned stop-and-frisk dragnet policing of men of color, the evaporation of affordable housing, an explosion in the numbers of homeless people, and an exodus of working-class New Yorkers, I’m hearing daily from Democrats evaluating the current crop of candidates and concluding that Bloomberg is best situated to beat Trump and to run the country.

I have spoken to three black NYC political operatives who are quietly thinking about joining the campaign, which is gaining momentum, hiring nationwide, and paying top dollar. These aren’t mercenaries but self-defined pragmatic progressives who believe Bloomberg has the best chance at an electoral victory against Trump in November. I have spoken to a friend who says his black fraternity’s message boards—full of college-educated black men of diverse financial backgrounds, in various professional sectors, living in towns and cities across the country—are full of favorable talk about Bloomberg. As I’m writing this on a trip to Los Angeles, I was surprised to hear my friends here—a diverse group of fortysomething progressives in different professions and from different backgrounds—saying not only that they thought Bloomberg could win but they were inclined to support him.

There’s a reason Bloomberg launched his campaign by delivering a badly overdue apology at the Christian Cultural Center in East New York for the explosion of stop-and-frisk policing on his watch and at his behest—support for him is not seen as socially acceptable in many black circles, regardless of class. That one-time apology was meant to put a decade of black and Latino subjugation behind him but, since black women are the keepers of democracy and the Democratic Party, many pundits thought that the issue would keep him from really competing in the party’s primary.

With Trump looming as the alternative, however, it’s possible that Bloomberg is building a base of support that won’t register in the polls until black voters turn out in large numbers to make a hard choice in South Carolina and then on Super Tuesday.

Black voters are strategic voters. As the great political scientist Charles V. Hamilton famously wrote, black voters often stay in a protectionist mode out of a keen sense of the limits to American democracy. Advancement is a risky proposition for a group of people who have only been voting under the full franchise of the law for a little over 50 years, and, as we know, even that is tenuous.

Candidates like Bernie Sanders propose blowing up the ship, but it is black voters who built the ship, as wayward as it may be. Joe Biden presented a more moderate vision along with his association with Barack Obama, but his promise that he can beat Trump has been sorely tested by the struggles of his campaign so far. Other moderates, like Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar, are viewed as out of touch by many black voters. Former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, an African-American success story and personal friend of Obama, entered the race awfully late and hasn’t resonated yet with black voters, or anyone else.

Meanwhile, Bloomberg has shot up to third place in the national polls after less than three months in the race, while outspending his opponents at a scale never before seen in American politics.

While other Democrats are fighting in one early state at a time, Bloomberg has been using his fortune to advertise (and build a field operation) nationally. He spent $200 million in the last quarter of 2019, effectively lapping the spending of his competitors in the Democratic field combined over the full year—and that’s just a taste of the spending to come in 2020. While other candidates need to spend time to raise money and carefully conserve the money they have, Bloomberg has effectively inexhaustible resources. Last October, Forbes estimated his fortune at $52 billion. Now, it’s $61 billion. If he spent an additional $200 million every week between now and Election Day, he’d still have more than $52 billion left.

Anyone who lived in NYC between 2001 and 2009 knows the power of Bloomberg flooding the airwaves and mailboxes. You couldn’t escape him and his tailored and well-crafted messaging. He was a manager with a legitimate business success story, unlike the failed developer turned reality-TV star currently occupying the White House. As mayor, Bloomberg helped NYC ascend from the precarious post-9/11 financial era and ran an administration rarely touched by corruption or personal scandal—while also spending half a billion dollars on his campaigns, or nearly $100 a vote, and even that’s not counting hundreds of millions more on personal and charitable giving that benefited him politically.

While he was first elected as a Republican and his social policies were a mixed bag, at best, the level of organized elite black opposition to Bloomberg and his policies was almost nonexistent. It was an open secret that pastors and others were rewarded for their support or reticence.

That playbook is being used again now as Bloomberg has been racking up endorsements from prominent black mayors across the country, including rising star Mike Tubbs of Sacramento, former Philadelphia Mayor Mike Nutter, and Muriel Bowser of Washington, D.C.

I don’t think Bloomberg expects to win a majority of black women on Super Tuesday, but I know that he and his team have worked out the percentage needed (along with a plan for the endorsements from black women needed to persuade white Democrats about his viability) and will craft detailed messaging and spend whatever is needed to hit that number.

From what I’m hearing this year, and have seen in past ones, I’d advise caution before betting against him.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2162 Post by Trollface-mies » 11 Feb 2020, 20:26

Jos toi nyt pitää kutinsa niin Bloomberg todennäköisesti torpedoi Warrenin pelistä, koska Lizin paras kasvun sauma on ollut ns. maltillista keskustaa edustavat afroamerikkalaiset.

Yks kaveri tarjoili mahdollisen selityksen tolle afroamerikkalaisten Bloomberg-innostukselle. Eli tiivistetysti, muut ehdokkaat on paskoja. Biden ja Warren ei enää vaikuta siltä että niillä olis mitään saumaa. Sandersin kampanja on tehnyt hienoisen mokan lehdistösihteerin valinnassa; ilmeisesti tää Briahna Joy Gray on suht jees nuoremman kenttäväen mobilisoinnissa mutta on sitten jotenkin dissaillut kansalaisoikeustaistelussa mukana olleita hyyppiä muuttumisesta "mainstream-demokraateiksi", mikä sitten vähän vituttaa vanhempaa mustaa polvee.

Ja tää vanhempi polvi olis sitten ilmeisesti nyt eliminaatioprosessin kautta päätynyt siihen että joo, Bloomberg, paska jätkä mutta mitä tässä nyt oikein on muutakaan enää jäljellä?

Ja sitten tämmönen. Ilmeisesti enemmän kuin 60% NYC:n mustista äänestäjistä oli sitä mieltä että stop-and-frisk vitun jees.

Last edited by Trollface-mies on 11 Feb 2020, 20:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2163 Post by Balam-Acab » 11 Feb 2020, 20:28

Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:08
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:41
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:38
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:28
devil via the anus wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
savon teknomilitia (virallinen) wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:21
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:12
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:10
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:01
Lusku wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:41
Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:38
Mr Sister wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:19
Semmonen lisäys tohon Trollface-miehen juttuun, että Reaganin tiimihän otti punaniskoista sen seuraavan loogisen askeleen kohti pohjaa eli evankeliset hihhulit. Ja tietty sit Rove masinoi swift-boat-veteraanit ja teekutsuliikkeen vielä niin siinä se pohjamuta oli saavutettu ja päästy siihen pisteeseen, että sekopäät määrää republikaanisessa puolueessa.
Bisnesväki pyörii yhä kuvioissa vaikka lähtökohtasesti aatellen tommonen dollari & rasismi & Jeesus on oikeestaan aika lailla luonnoton koalitio.
Jeesus taipuu moneen ja onhan "Prosperity theologyllä" (en tiiä mitä tää on suomeksi) juuret jo 1800 luvun puolella. ja kai sillä KKK:llakin oli kristillistä kuvastoa jne.
Tossa aiemmin linkatussa videossahan joku selitti innoissaan miten kukaan ei voi tulla niin rikkaaksi kuin Trump olematta kunnon kristitty
Miten pääsaatana Soronen istuu masseineen tähän yhtälöön? :-k
Soroshan on juutalainen.
Juu, jopa mä tiedän sen. Aattelin vaan, että jos jos rikkaaksi ei voi tulla olematta jumalan valittu, niin kai se sitte pätee Soroseenkin.
juutalaiset on se poikkeus koska ovat cunning ja lying [-X
Entä saudit ym. muslimit öljyineen?
No ne taas on niiden jumalan valittuja. Onkohan jahvella ja allahilla kovat tappelut koko ajan.
Näähän on sama jätkä.
:o
Toi on vähän niinku lahkot tappelemassa siitä kellä on oikea tulkinta Marxista.
kristityt vastaa vissiin leninistejä ja muslimit maolaisia
Naturally, the machines were destroyed.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2164 Post by Rasmus-mafioso » 11 Feb 2020, 20:38

raaka mestitsi ¹ wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:28
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:08
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:41
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:38
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:28
devil via the anus wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
savon teknomilitia (virallinen) wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:21
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:12
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:10
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:01
Lusku wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:41
Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:38
Mr Sister wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:19
Semmonen lisäys tohon Trollface-miehen juttuun, että Reaganin tiimihän otti punaniskoista sen seuraavan loogisen askeleen kohti pohjaa eli evankeliset hihhulit. Ja tietty sit Rove masinoi swift-boat-veteraanit ja teekutsuliikkeen vielä niin siinä se pohjamuta oli saavutettu ja päästy siihen pisteeseen, että sekopäät määrää republikaanisessa puolueessa.
Bisnesväki pyörii yhä kuvioissa vaikka lähtökohtasesti aatellen tommonen dollari & rasismi & Jeesus on oikeestaan aika lailla luonnoton koalitio.
Jeesus taipuu moneen ja onhan "Prosperity theologyllä" (en tiiä mitä tää on suomeksi) juuret jo 1800 luvun puolella. ja kai sillä KKK:llakin oli kristillistä kuvastoa jne.
Tossa aiemmin linkatussa videossahan joku selitti innoissaan miten kukaan ei voi tulla niin rikkaaksi kuin Trump olematta kunnon kristitty
Miten pääsaatana Soronen istuu masseineen tähän yhtälöön? :-k
Soroshan on juutalainen.
Juu, jopa mä tiedän sen. Aattelin vaan, että jos jos rikkaaksi ei voi tulla olematta jumalan valittu, niin kai se sitte pätee Soroseenkin.
juutalaiset on se poikkeus koska ovat cunning ja lying [-X
Entä saudit ym. muslimit öljyineen?
No ne taas on niiden jumalan valittuja. Onkohan jahvella ja allahilla kovat tappelut koko ajan.
Näähän on sama jätkä.
:o
Toi on vähän niinku lahkot tappelemassa siitä kellä on oikea tulkinta Marxista.
kristityt vastaa vissiin leninistejä ja muslimit maolaisia
juutalaiset demareita?
jaltsun villain era wrote:
15 Jan 2024, 16:27
oletin Rasmus-mafiosoa raivokkaan demariksi. :confused2smoker:

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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2165 Post by Mahdollisimman yleistäi » 11 Feb 2020, 20:54

Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:26
Ja sitten tämmönen. Ilmeisesti enemmän kuin 60% NYC:n mustista äänestäjistä oli sitä mieltä että stop-and-frisk vitun jees.

Tosta olis kyllä kiinnostavaa kuulla vähän enemmän, että miksi näin?
Jos nyt Bloombergin horinat siitä, että jorkit jättää aseen kotiin stop & frisk-pelossa pitää paikkaansa, niin kai sitä itsekin ainakin tommosta kehitystä kannattais. Mutta nielisikö sen varjolla pärstän mukaan profiloinnin ja alituisen kyttäyksen, niin tuskin.

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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2166 Post by Balam-Acab » 11 Feb 2020, 20:56

Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:38
raaka mestitsi ¹ wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:28
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:08
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:41
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:38
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:28
devil via the anus wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
savon teknomilitia (virallinen) wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:24
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:21
Jesse Python wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:12
Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:10
Rasmus-mafioso wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 19:01
Lusku wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:41
Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:38
Mr Sister wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 18:19
Semmonen lisäys tohon Trollface-miehen juttuun, että Reaganin tiimihän otti punaniskoista sen seuraavan loogisen askeleen kohti pohjaa eli evankeliset hihhulit. Ja tietty sit Rove masinoi swift-boat-veteraanit ja teekutsuliikkeen vielä niin siinä se pohjamuta oli saavutettu ja päästy siihen pisteeseen, että sekopäät määrää republikaanisessa puolueessa.
Bisnesväki pyörii yhä kuvioissa vaikka lähtökohtasesti aatellen tommonen dollari & rasismi & Jeesus on oikeestaan aika lailla luonnoton koalitio.
Jeesus taipuu moneen ja onhan "Prosperity theologyllä" (en tiiä mitä tää on suomeksi) juuret jo 1800 luvun puolella. ja kai sillä KKK:llakin oli kristillistä kuvastoa jne.
Tossa aiemmin linkatussa videossahan joku selitti innoissaan miten kukaan ei voi tulla niin rikkaaksi kuin Trump olematta kunnon kristitty
Miten pääsaatana Soronen istuu masseineen tähän yhtälöön? :-k
Soroshan on juutalainen.
Juu, jopa mä tiedän sen. Aattelin vaan, että jos jos rikkaaksi ei voi tulla olematta jumalan valittu, niin kai se sitte pätee Soroseenkin.
juutalaiset on se poikkeus koska ovat cunning ja lying [-X
Entä saudit ym. muslimit öljyineen?
No ne taas on niiden jumalan valittuja. Onkohan jahvella ja allahilla kovat tappelut koko ajan.
Näähän on sama jätkä.
:o
Toi on vähän niinku lahkot tappelemassa siitä kellä on oikea tulkinta Marxista.
kristityt vastaa vissiin leninistejä ja muslimit maolaisia
juutalaiset demareita?
piffolta luin että amerikassa yleensä näin
Naturally, the machines were destroyed.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2167 Post by sössön sössön » 11 Feb 2020, 21:05

Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:26
Ilmeisesti enemmän kuin 60% NYC:n mustista äänestäjistä
NYS luulis meinaavan New Yorkin osavaltiota
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2168 Post by Trollface-mies » 11 Feb 2020, 21:07

sössön sössön wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 21:05
Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:26
Ilmeisesti enemmän kuin 60% NYC:n mustista äänestäjistä
NYS luulis meinaavan New Yorkin osavaltiota

Niinpäs juu, siinä lukikin noin. No, toisaalta 2/3 osavaltion mustista asuu siellä Cityssä.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2169 Post by renesanssi-kari (punk) » 11 Feb 2020, 21:10

Jauhosuu wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:54
Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 20:26
Ja sitten tämmönen. Ilmeisesti enemmän kuin 60% NYC:n mustista äänestäjistä oli sitä mieltä että stop-and-frisk vitun jees.

Tosta olis kyllä kiinnostavaa kuulla vähän enemmän, että miksi näin?
Jos nyt Bloombergin horinat siitä, että jorkit jättää aseen kotiin stop & frisk-pelossa pitää paikkaansa, niin kai sitä itsekin ainakin tommosta kehitystä kannattais. Mutta nielisikö sen varjolla pärstän mukaan profiloinnin ja alituisen kyttäyksen, niin tuskin.
Voi ehkä olla että stop'n'frisk kohdistuu lähinnä sopivanikäisiin ja oloisiin miehiin, jotka toisinaan on ihan oikeesti vähän semmosia kavereita joista naapurustossa pitää: omat kaverit ja asiakkaat.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2170 Post by annan neuvon: ala nussia koiria » 11 Feb 2020, 21:42

Rakastan lämpimiä, rehellisiä ja raskaita koiria

https://wolfbaitcult.bandcamp.com/
https://worstnoise.bandcamp.com/

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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2171 Post by Trollface-mies » 11 Feb 2020, 21:46

Yglesias puhuu joskus ihan paskaa mutta nyt enimmäkseen asiaa IMO.

Otsikko siis ei tarkoita sitä, että Sanders pitäisi pysäyttää, vaan ihan sitä, että tää paljon puhuttu ESTABLISHMENTIN ihan TAKUUVARMA pyrkimys Sandersin torpedointiin yksinkertasesti vaan ei näytä olevan tapahtumassa eikä tapahdu. Vollottamista on kyllä paljon ja vaikeetahan se ajatus on mainstream-demokraateille niellä, mutta kukaan ei ole oikeasti tekemässä yhtään mitään tän asian välttämiseks.

Ja ihan suht hyvin arvioitu myös tota kentän hajanaisuutta, sekä ehdokkaiden että rahoittajien fragmentaatiota, ja hyvä huomio sekin että wanhat isot nimet ei ole pahemmin endorsementteja heitelleet. Yglesias on vielä tässä kohtaa sitä mieltä että Bloombergin kampanja on ihan turhamaisuus-show, mutta tässä kohtaa on kuulunut myös niitä ääniä siitä että Bloomberg voi olla nousussa.
Vox wrote:The Democratic establishment is doing a really bad job of stopping Bernie Sanders

Complaining doesn't accomplish anything; they need to unite on an alternative.

On December 11, 1999, about eight weeks before the New Hampshire primary, then-President Bill Clinton endorsed Vice President Al Gore as his preferred successor.

At the time, Gore was running for the nomination against Sen. Bill Bradley, the former New York Knick turned senator from New Jersey.

Clinton didn’t bash Bradley. But he also made a clear choice. After all, he had selected Gore for a role that presupposes he could be president in the middle of a giant national crisis. The move probably wasn’t as obvious as it seems now — the personal relationship between the two was somewhat strained at the time because Gore had distanced himself from Clinton in the wake of his impeachment — but Clinton was effusive in his praise of Gore, calling him “the most effective and influential vice president who has ever served.”

Bradley wasn’t a profound ideological challenge to the party establishment as Sanders is today, but nonetheless, there was a distinct closing of the ranks around Gore. By the time Clinton endorsed him, the Democratic leaders in both the House and Senate had already backed him. Major donors marshaled their resources behind him.

Nothing like it is happening in the 2020 cycle. Instead, mainstream Democrats openly wring their hands about the prospect of a Bernie Sanders nomination. Though Sanders supporters are borderline paranoid about anti-Sanders sentiment, there’s virtually no actual anti-Sanders organizing.

Meanwhile, the rival campaigns still number in the double digits. Several of them have many passionate followers, and one of them might beat Sanders. But their sheer multiplicity — and key leaders’ refusal to decide among them — is a sign that anti-Sanders zeal, though real, is also quite limited.

Definitively stopping Sanders would require a clear choice, yet party leaders have clearly decided they can’t be bothered.


Joe Biden’s endorsement roster is weak

To see how Biden is faring compared with Gore, just look at his list of endorsements.

He is, of course, the unquestioned endorsement leader if you follow the FiveThirtyEight endorsement tracker. They include Cindy Axne, the first-year House member from Iowa; Leroy Garcia, the president of the Colorado state Senate; Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan; Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont; and Alabama Sen. Doug Jones. My colleague Laura McGann points out he’s the favorite choice of frontline House Democrats who need to win in tough races. But Biden’s endorsers are mostly people nobody’s heard of.

We live in a nationalized media environment where politically engaged citizens have emotional and intellectual relationships with nationally known political figures. Gore had figures like that behind his campaign — Clinton, Tom Daschle, Dick Gephardt — but today, Biden doesn’t have Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or Nancy Pelosi.

Obama hasn’t endorsed his own VP pick, even though “Obama likes me” is central to Biden’s pitch. Clinton, who clearly has a problem with Sanders, hasn’t endorsed his biggest rival either, even though she could help shore up support with college-educated women currently backing Elizabeth Warren. Chuck Schumer and Pelosi haven’t endorsed. Nor has former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid or Gore himself. John Kerry is backing Biden but then was overheard seemingly musing his own run, undermining the Biden effort.

Solid backing for Biden from high-profile Democrats wouldn’t make Sanders’s factional support dry up. But it would deliver a clear and unambiguous signal to Democrats to rally behind Biden instead of fracturing across three or four candidates.

And, of course, it would help with money.


The “donor class” is desperately fragmented

Sanders has created a fundraising juggernaut grounded in a huge national base of small donors.

But as great as small donors are, rich large donors have a lot more money and should be able to ensure a solid cash advantage. Instead of helping the former vice president match Sanders in fundraising, though, Democrats’ traditional bundlers and large donors have largely rallied to the banner of the former mayor of the fourth-largest city in Indiana — making Pete Buttigieg the No. 2 fundraiser in the race.

Buttigieg seems like a nice guy, a smart guy, and a good politician who I think would do a fine job as president. But as a coordination point for a party elite that’s supposedly trying to close ranks and stop a socialist insurgent, he’s a frankly bizarre choice, starting with his thin résumé and his issue gaining support from black voters.

It’s much easier to imagine Biden, whom many black voters like, beating Sanders in a head-to-head matchup than it is to imagine Buttigieg doing so. And if Buttigieg’s money had gone to Biden, Biden could use that money to help beat Sanders. But instead, donor money is going to help Buttigieg poach white moderate votes from Biden, creating a fragmented field that could let Sanders win purely by consolidating progressives.

To make matters worse, Democrats have two separate ego-fueled billionaire vanity campaigns in the field.

Plutocrats are objectively helping Sanders win

Because Mike Bloomberg is ridiculously rich, he keeps putting ads on TV in random places.

They’re good ads, well-targeted at the views of Democrats who think that Donald Trump is extremely bad. Bloomberg’s actual record both in business and in politics — from sexual harassment to stop-and-frisk to endorsing George W. Bush — is complicated, and there’s plenty for normie Democrats to dislike. But the ads are good. They’d also be great ads for Joe Biden if Bloomberg wanted to generously finance a pro-Biden Super PAC.

Right now in the polling averages, Sanders is just below 25 percent while Biden is just below 30 percent. To beat him handily, all Biden needs to do is consolidate the bulk of the non-Bernie vote. Bloomberg’s ads and money could be very helpful in doing that. But instead, Bloomberg is spending the money on himself, rising to 8.3 percent in the polls — not nearly enough to win but enough to cut Biden’s lead over Sanders.

Then, absurdly, Tom Steyer, who is both less rich than Bloomberg and much less qualified for the presidency, is also dumping tens of millions of dollars on a pointless quest to further divide the field.

Many Sanders fans I know seem to experience this cavalcade of wild ideas — Maybe we’ll promote an underqualified mayor! Maybe we’ll run two billionaires simultaneously! — as a sign of how desperate the donor class is to defeat Sanders. But in its practical impact, it’s precisely the opposite. The financial fragmentation that’s left Biden outspent by both Sanders and three moderate rivals is overcomplicating any effort to stop the red tide.


If Biden’s not up for it, someone should have said so

One possible interpretation of all this is that top Democrats have profound doubts about Biden that they didn’t have about Al Gore.

If that’s the issue, then the failure to coordinate and convey that opinion to the public in a clear way is an even bigger bungle. Most Americans like to think of themselves as independent-minded people, which is one reason endorsements often don’t seem to matter that much. But if Obama had said that he thought Biden was too old and Democrats should go in another direction — or if he’d said that Buttigieg is too young and inexperienced — then rank-and-file Democrats surely would have listened.

Instead, party leaders allowed the well-known and well-liked Biden to get left out in the cold and for enormous sums of money to be spent on fragmenting the anti-Sanders vote.

What’s more, all efforts to take down Sanders are counterproductive. Clinton, for starters, can’t seem to restrain herself from venting bitterly about Sanders. And Obama’s heavy-handed intervention into the Democratic National Committee chair race several years ago, similarly, did an enormous amount to poison the well. But while these kinds of moves do annoy Sanders’s biggest boosters, they don’t actually hurt Sanders’s campaign.

What would hurt Sanders’s campaign would be elite coordination toward a single candidate. That hasn’t happened.

Bradley wasn’t a profound ideological challenge to the party establishment as Sanders is today, but nonetheless, there was a distinct closing of the ranks around Gore. By the time Clinton endorsed him, the Democratic leaders in both the House and Senate had already backed him. Major donors marshaled their resources behind him.

Nothing like it is happening in the 2020 cycle. Instead, mainstream Democrats openly wring their hands about the prospect of a Bernie Sanders nomination. Though Sanders supporters are borderline paranoid about anti-Sanders sentiment, there’s virtually no actual anti-Sanders organizing.

Meanwhile, the rival campaigns still number in the double digits. Several of them have many passionate followers, and one of them might beat Sanders. But their sheer multiplicity — and key leaders’ refusal to decide among them — is a sign that anti-Sanders zeal, though real, is also quite limited.

Definitively stopping Sanders would require a clear choice, yet party leaders have clearly decided they can’t be bothered.
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2172 Post by annan neuvon: ala nussia koiria » 11 Feb 2020, 22:35


mestarin otteet
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2173 Post by Ingmar Bergmanin kuolema » 11 Feb 2020, 22:51

Trollface-mies wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 21:46
Yglesias puhuu joskus ihan paskaa mutta nyt enimmäkseen asiaa IMO.

Otsikko siis ei tarkoita sitä, että Sanders pitäisi pysäyttää, vaan ihan sitä, että tää paljon puhuttu ESTABLISHMENTIN ihan TAKUUVARMA pyrkimys Sandersin torpedointiin yksinkertasesti vaan ei näytä olevan tapahtumassa eikä tapahdu. Vollottamista on kyllä paljon ja vaikeetahan se ajatus on mainstream-demokraateille niellä, mutta kukaan ei ole oikeasti tekemässä yhtään mitään tän asian välttämiseks.

Ja ihan suht hyvin arvioitu myös tota kentän hajanaisuutta, sekä ehdokkaiden että rahoittajien fragmentaatiota, ja hyvä huomio sekin että wanhat isot nimet ei ole pahemmin endorsementteja heitelleet. Yglesias on vielä tässä kohtaa sitä mieltä että Bloombergin kampanja on ihan turhamaisuus-show, mutta tässä kohtaa on kuulunut myös niitä ääniä siitä että Bloomberg voi olla nousussa.
Vox wrote:The Democratic establishment is doing a really bad job of stopping Bernie Sanders

Complaining doesn't accomplish anything; they need to unite on an alternative.
Spoiler:
On December 11, 1999, about eight weeks before the New Hampshire primary, then-President Bill Clinton endorsed Vice President Al Gore as his preferred successor.

At the time, Gore was running for the nomination against Sen. Bill Bradley, the former New York Knick turned senator from New Jersey.

Clinton didn’t bash Bradley. But he also made a clear choice. After all, he had selected Gore for a role that presupposes he could be president in the middle of a giant national crisis. The move probably wasn’t as obvious as it seems now — the personal relationship between the two was somewhat strained at the time because Gore had distanced himself from Clinton in the wake of his impeachment — but Clinton was effusive in his praise of Gore, calling him “the most effective and influential vice president who has ever served.”

Bradley wasn’t a profound ideological challenge to the party establishment as Sanders is today, but nonetheless, there was a distinct closing of the ranks around Gore. By the time Clinton endorsed him, the Democratic leaders in both the House and Senate had already backed him. Major donors marshaled their resources behind him.

Nothing like it is happening in the 2020 cycle. Instead, mainstream Democrats openly wring their hands about the prospect of a Bernie Sanders nomination. Though Sanders supporters are borderline paranoid about anti-Sanders sentiment, there’s virtually no actual anti-Sanders organizing.

Meanwhile, the rival campaigns still number in the double digits. Several of them have many passionate followers, and one of them might beat Sanders. But their sheer multiplicity — and key leaders’ refusal to decide among them — is a sign that anti-Sanders zeal, though real, is also quite limited.

Definitively stopping Sanders would require a clear choice, yet party leaders have clearly decided they can’t be bothered.


Joe Biden’s endorsement roster is weak

To see how Biden is faring compared with Gore, just look at his list of endorsements.

He is, of course, the unquestioned endorsement leader if you follow the FiveThirtyEight endorsement tracker. They include Cindy Axne, the first-year House member from Iowa; Leroy Garcia, the president of the Colorado state Senate; Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan; Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont; and Alabama Sen. Doug Jones. My colleague Laura McGann points out he’s the favorite choice of frontline House Democrats who need to win in tough races. But Biden’s endorsers are mostly people nobody’s heard of.

We live in a nationalized media environment where politically engaged citizens have emotional and intellectual relationships with nationally known political figures. Gore had figures like that behind his campaign — Clinton, Tom Daschle, Dick Gephardt — but today, Biden doesn’t have Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or Nancy Pelosi.

Obama hasn’t endorsed his own VP pick, even though “Obama likes me” is central to Biden’s pitch. Clinton, who clearly has a problem with Sanders, hasn’t endorsed his biggest rival either, even though she could help shore up support with college-educated women currently backing Elizabeth Warren. Chuck Schumer and Pelosi haven’t endorsed. Nor has former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid or Gore himself. John Kerry is backing Biden but then was overheard seemingly musing his own run, undermining the Biden effort.

Solid backing for Biden from high-profile Democrats wouldn’t make Sanders’s factional support dry up. But it would deliver a clear and unambiguous signal to Democrats to rally behind Biden instead of fracturing across three or four candidates.

And, of course, it would help with money.


The “donor class” is desperately fragmented

Sanders has created a fundraising juggernaut grounded in a huge national base of small donors.

But as great as small donors are, rich large donors have a lot more money and should be able to ensure a solid cash advantage. Instead of helping the former vice president match Sanders in fundraising, though, Democrats’ traditional bundlers and large donors have largely rallied to the banner of the former mayor of the fourth-largest city in Indiana — making Pete Buttigieg the No. 2 fundraiser in the race.

Buttigieg seems like a nice guy, a smart guy, and a good politician who I think would do a fine job as president. But as a coordination point for a party elite that’s supposedly trying to close ranks and stop a socialist insurgent, he’s a frankly bizarre choice, starting with his thin résumé and his issue gaining support from black voters.

It’s much easier to imagine Biden, whom many black voters like, beating Sanders in a head-to-head matchup than it is to imagine Buttigieg doing so. And if Buttigieg’s money had gone to Biden, Biden could use that money to help beat Sanders. But instead, donor money is going to help Buttigieg poach white moderate votes from Biden, creating a fragmented field that could let Sanders win purely by consolidating progressives.

To make matters worse, Democrats have two separate ego-fueled billionaire vanity campaigns in the field.

Plutocrats are objectively helping Sanders win

Because Mike Bloomberg is ridiculously rich, he keeps putting ads on TV in random places.

They’re good ads, well-targeted at the views of Democrats who think that Donald Trump is extremely bad. Bloomberg’s actual record both in business and in politics — from sexual harassment to stop-and-frisk to endorsing George W. Bush — is complicated, and there’s plenty for normie Democrats to dislike. But the ads are good. They’d also be great ads for Joe Biden if Bloomberg wanted to generously finance a pro-Biden Super PAC.

Right now in the polling averages, Sanders is just below 25 percent while Biden is just below 30 percent. To beat him handily, all Biden needs to do is consolidate the bulk of the non-Bernie vote. Bloomberg’s ads and money could be very helpful in doing that. But instead, Bloomberg is spending the money on himself, rising to 8.3 percent in the polls — not nearly enough to win but enough to cut Biden’s lead over Sanders.

Then, absurdly, Tom Steyer, who is both less rich than Bloomberg and much less qualified for the presidency, is also dumping tens of millions of dollars on a pointless quest to further divide the field.

Many Sanders fans I know seem to experience this cavalcade of wild ideas — Maybe we’ll promote an underqualified mayor! Maybe we’ll run two billionaires simultaneously! — as a sign of how desperate the donor class is to defeat Sanders. But in its practical impact, it’s precisely the opposite. The financial fragmentation that’s left Biden outspent by both Sanders and three moderate rivals is overcomplicating any effort to stop the red tide.


If Biden’s not up for it, someone should have said so

One possible interpretation of all this is that top Democrats have profound doubts about Biden that they didn’t have about Al Gore.

If that’s the issue, then the failure to coordinate and convey that opinion to the public in a clear way is an even bigger bungle. Most Americans like to think of themselves as independent-minded people, which is one reason endorsements often don’t seem to matter that much. But if Obama had said that he thought Biden was too old and Democrats should go in another direction — or if he’d said that Buttigieg is too young and inexperienced — then rank-and-file Democrats surely would have listened.

Instead, party leaders allowed the well-known and well-liked Biden to get left out in the cold and for enormous sums of money to be spent on fragmenting the anti-Sanders vote.

What’s more, all efforts to take down Sanders are counterproductive. Clinton, for starters, can’t seem to restrain herself from venting bitterly about Sanders. And Obama’s heavy-handed intervention into the Democratic National Committee chair race several years ago, similarly, did an enormous amount to poison the well. But while these kinds of moves do annoy Sanders’s biggest boosters, they don’t actually hurt Sanders’s campaign.

What would hurt Sanders’s campaign would be elite coordination toward a single candidate. That hasn’t happened.

Bradley wasn’t a profound ideological challenge to the party establishment as Sanders is today, but nonetheless, there was a distinct closing of the ranks around Gore. By the time Clinton endorsed him, the Democratic leaders in both the House and Senate had already backed him. Major donors marshaled their resources behind him.

Nothing like it is happening in the 2020 cycle. Instead, mainstream Democrats openly wring their hands about the prospect of a Bernie Sanders nomination. Though Sanders supporters are borderline paranoid about anti-Sanders sentiment, there’s virtually no actual anti-Sanders organizing.

Meanwhile, the rival campaigns still number in the double digits. Several of them have many passionate followers, and one of them might beat Sanders. But their sheer multiplicity — and key leaders’ refusal to decide among them — is a sign that anti-Sanders zeal, though real, is also quite limited.

Definitively stopping Sanders would require a clear choice, yet party leaders have clearly decided they can’t be bothered.
Luulin että on vanhempi juttu kuin muutaman päivän takaa, kun mukana ei ole mainintaakaan Buttigiegin (päälleliimatusta) anti-establishment-nyrkinpuinnista ja usko Bideniin tuntuu kovalta. Mayor Petehän sössöttää tällä hetkellä eniten Washington sitä ja Washington tätä kampanjassaan. Yglesias olisi voinut käydä lukemassa piffiltä puoli vuotta sitten, että ei se Biden kanna maaliin.

Tietty kun asioita katsoo tällaisesta mannereurooppalaisesta näkökulmasta, niin monen kandidaatin kisa ei näytä yhtä kauhealta kuin mitä ilmeisen monen amerikkalaisen politicon kannalta. Rehti kisa, paskanheittely pidetään lähellä minimiä ja lopussa kaikki taputtaa voittajalle yksissä tuumin = profit. Ehdotettu demokraattietablismentin linnoittautuminen vaikka Bidenin ympärille Sandersia vastaan on kyllä omiin silmiin helpoin ja ilmiselvin tapa repiä koko puolue keskeltä ratki.

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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2174 Post by Kauko Keuhkon näköinen mies » 11 Feb 2020, 22:53

He was a manager with a legitimate business success story, unlike the failed developer turned reality-TV star currently occupying the White House.
:)
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Re: 2020 us pres vaalit

#2175 Post by Kauko Keuhkon näköinen mies » 11 Feb 2020, 22:56

Sanoisin ettei kannata demujen vielä esivaaleissa kenenkään joukkoihin vahvasti lyöttäytyä, mut esivaalivoittajan taakse vähän vitun sassiin ja yhtenäisesti. Sillä on paljon merkitystä.
Kellä kutiseva reikä illalla, sillä haiseva sormi aamulla.

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