Re: Erityisvasemmiston kuolemanspiraali-topso
Posted: 26 Mar 2022, 23:45
Oulu on paska kaupunni.
Neuvostoliitossa ei ollut tätäkään ongelmaa
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https://www.punkinfinland.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929439
Just tota spoilerissa olevaa tärkeää ja olennaista kriittistä otetta parikin tuttua jakoi tyyliin sodan tokana päivänä ja kyllä vituttieh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2022, 23:30En oikein tiedä, tarvitseeko tästä lainata muuta kuin otsikko tänne, että ilmenee, kuinka sakeasta sekoilusta on kyse: "Anarkistijohtajat imperialismin agentteina".
Jutun lopussa mainittiin toivoa antavana Oulun anarkistiliiton anti-imperialismi, joten kävin kattomassa, ja ohan se joo.Spoiler:
Why do people carry water for Putin?
The real question, of course, is why this diverse array of rightists and leftists is tripping over themselves to carry water for Vladimir Putin’s preferred narratives of the war. The easiest and simplest explanation is that all of these people are basically on the same team — part of a new global axis of authoritarianism, with the extreme left and the extreme right basically indistinguishable in their desire to create totalitarian societies.
I don’t think this theory is entirely bunk — there is a clear trend toward authoritarianism all over the world, and it doesn’t have an obvious left-right valence. But I think it’s a trend more than a movement, and while I think the new authoritarian impulse might nudge people toward support for Putin, I frankly don’t think most of the people listed above have thought far enough ahead to envision any kind of a future regime.
Another, more subtle theory — which I’ve advanced myself — is something I call Last Bastion Theory. This is the tendency of people in the U.S. and Europe to view Russia as the distant protector of something they hold dear. For traditionalists, Russia can be seen as the last protector of Christianity, or of traditional gender roles. White supremacists might see Russia as the last White empire on the globe. And for leftists who view America as the world’s imperialistic Great Satan, Russia might seem like a bastion of resistance. Of course, the Russian government goes out of its way to encourage such perceptions. To all of these groups, the distant sphinx of the Kremlin might have seemed like a power capable of offering support while representing no threat.
But I don’t think this completely explains it either. Once Putin’s rocket launchers rolled into Ukraine and started slaughtering the locals, it became clear that Russia’s rulers were not such a distant, safe ally after all. And the combination of incompetence and cruelty with which Russia has prosecuted the war makes Putin both a toxic and unreliable patron.
And yet some people still defend Putin’s war narratives. There must be something else at work here, and I have a guess as to what it is.
The title of this post is a reference to a line from the TV show Game of Thrones, where the scheming nobleman Littlefinger declares that “Chaos is a ladder.” By disrupting the stability of the current regime, he intends to create space to move up in the world. In the same way, I see many of the above-mentioned figures on both the Right and the Left as Chaos Climbers — people who believe that the travails of the liberal order built after World War 2 represent an opening for their own fringe ideologies to advance their power.
This might sound wildly accusatory, but it’s not — it’s just a description of what has been actually happening over the last decade.
It was the failure of conservatism that gave rise to the Trumpist movement and the alt-right. Bush’s muscular interventionism ran aground in Iraq, laissez-faire economics crashed the economy in 2008, and Christian conservatism failed to halt the gay rights movement. The conservative paradigm that had taken over the GOP in the 70s and 80s failed all at once, and fringe elements — the alt-right, conspiracy theorists, Trump — sort of took over the party.
Meanwhile, on the Democratic side, the socialist Left that started to revive itself with the antiwar movement and Occupy blossomed into a full-blown generational movement with the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign that revived the DSA, spawned a new generation of activist orgs like the Sunrise movement, and created a new (though still modest) socialist media. So far, despite fierce factionalism, the socialists have not yet succeeded in taking over the Democratic party like Trump took over the GOP. But in highlighting the failures of centrist Dems to curb inequality, revive unions, fix health care, or save the welfare state, they clearly hope to be able to pull off a takeover at some point.
In other words, all of the people now pushing Putinist narratives are people who have been able to use chaos as a ladder to build up their own positions within the U.S.’ two political parties, to some extent. Establishment failures equal insurgent opportunities. That shouldn’t be too controversial.
So where does Putin come into this? Both the liberal center-Left and the conservative center-Right are basically committed to upholding the global liberal order. Putin, by invading and attempting to conquer a sovereign state, challenges that order. If Putin succeeds, even modestly, it represents a failure for the U.S. establishment figures who tried to stop him. And establishment failures equal insurgent opportunities. Both the rightists and the leftists here are fighting against the Fukuyaman end-of-history idea that gives their own movements little space to move up.
If Putin defeats the Ukrainians, the conservatives that are standing against Putin will look ineffectual and weak. The Trumpists will then be able to solidify their control over the GOP. And it also means a victory for raw power and will (perhaps implying that efforts like the January 6th putsch are the preferred method for attaining power). But if Putin loses, then Trump and his allies who for years praised and defended Putin’s regime will be discredited. Success has a thousand fathers; failure is an orphan. Even more damningly, if Putin loses, it’ll be a success for the globalist order — sanctions and aid to Ukraine will represent a triumph of international cooperation. Exactly the kind of world order the Trumpists want so badly to smash.
As for leftists, if Putin wins, it’ll represent another failure of what they perceive as the American empire. As with the pullout from Afghanistan, failure to stop Ukraine from being overrun with military aid and sanctions would show that America is a paper tiger, has feet of clay, blah blah blah — pick your metaphor. Frustrated by Joe Biden’s triangulation of some of their economic ideas (just as communists were enraged by FDR’s New Deal in the 1930s), leftists have been hoping to score anti-establishment victories in the foreign policy realm instead. If Putin defeats Ukraine, it’ll be a debacle for Biden and the establishment, and perhaps a socialist candidate will be a little closer to winning the next primary.
So Chaos Climbers on the Right and Left both have some incentive to want Putin to win — or at least for the war to be perceived as a NATO loss. This doesn’t mean they’re ready to cheer for Putin openly, or even to hope for his victory — the blazing moral clarity of the situation is still too strong for that. But it does mean that they feel the need to muddy the waters, to curb U.S. support for Ukraine and make the establishment look irresolute, and to prepare narratives that would allow them to take advantage of a Putin victory.
What these people all fear is the return of the order of the 1990s — a return to the idea of liberal internationalism as the least bad of all possible systems of human organization. If Fukuyaman ideas return to the pole position in American thought, all of the various revolutions that people have allowed themselves to dream about during the past eight years of unrest will be put on indefinite hold. With domestic unrest starting to flag a bit as well, the rightists and leftists must now see their shared nightmare unfolding before them — a great muddling-through, a slow revivification of the institutions that failed in Iraq and the Great Recession and the Trump Era. To paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson, many people all over the ideological spectrum allowed themselves to see the chaos of the last decade as a high and beautiful wave that would carry them to power… and now, if Putin is ejected from Ukraine by a triumphant international liberal West, the various Chaos Climbers may see their waves break and roll back.
Siis täähän on kaiken lisäksi aivan käsittämätön tämä meemi tässä yhteydessä. Jos asovannatsien touhuja pitäisi peitellä, miksi Zelenskyi olisi harmissaan että media seuraa Will Smithiä?
Rasmus-mafioso wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 17:38Taas muistuttaa siitä miksi anarkistinen vasemmistokritiikki on ollut paikallaan, koska avoin anarkovasemmistolaisuus johtaa usein kiusallisempiin juttuihin ku anarkohommissa muuten ois välttämätöntä.
Ois aika paljon kiinnostavampaa lukea sitä analyysiä ja kritiikkiä kuin vaan toteamuksia toisensa jälkeen, kuinka joku on toiminut nolosti ja hävettävästi.bengalin tiikeri dvd wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 18:01Just tota spoilerissa olevaa tärkeää ja olennaista kriittistä otetta parikin tuttua jakoi tyyliin sodan tokana päivänä ja kyllä vituttieh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2022, 23:30En oikein tiedä, tarvitseeko tästä lainata muuta kuin otsikko tänne, että ilmenee, kuinka sakeasta sekoilusta on kyse: "Anarkistijohtajat imperialismin agentteina".
Jutun lopussa mainittiin toivoa antavana Oulun anarkistiliiton anti-imperialismi, joten kävin kattomassa, ja ohan se joo.Spoiler:
Tämä ja pettymys ns. omaan puoleen.
Siis haluatko sä nyt analyyttistä kritiikkiä tosta Oulun anarkistiliiton "laajemmasta imperialismin kritiikistä" vai mistä?korpikolva wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 21:18Rasmus-mafioso wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 17:38Taas muistuttaa siitä miksi anarkistinen vasemmistokritiikki on ollut paikallaan, koska avoin anarkovasemmistolaisuus johtaa usein kiusallisempiin juttuihin ku anarkohommissa muuten ois välttämätöntä.Ois aika paljon kiinnostavampaa lukea sitä analyysiä ja kritiikkiä kuin vaan toteamuksia toisensa jälkeen, kuinka joku on toiminut nolosti ja hävettävästi.bengalin tiikeri dvd wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 18:01Just tota spoilerissa olevaa tärkeää ja olennaista kriittistä otetta parikin tuttua jakoi tyyliin sodan tokana päivänä ja kyllä vituttieh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2022, 23:30En oikein tiedä, tarvitseeko tästä lainata muuta kuin otsikko tänne, että ilmenee, kuinka sakeasta sekoilusta on kyse: "Anarkistijohtajat imperialismin agentteina".
Jutun lopussa mainittiin toivoa antavana Oulun anarkistiliiton anti-imperialismi, joten kävin kattomassa, ja ohan se joo.Spoiler: